Resistance: Fall of Man to be banned?

by CHEE5E 56 Comments 7 Votes 256 Views 10/06/2007 Back to News

The Church of England has threatened legal action against Sony after it used a cathedral without permission as the backdrop to an ultra-violent computer game.

Church leaders have accused Sony of the "desecration" of Manchester Cathedral, after the firm set one of its top-selling games inside the place of worship.

The new Play-Station3 game, titled Resistance: Fall of Man, which has sold more than one million copies, sees a virtual shoot-out between rival gunman with hundreds killed during a gun battle inside the cathedral in an orgy of blood.

Church officials described Sony's use of the building as "sick" and sacrilegious.
The Church say Sony did not ask for permission to use the cathedral and has demanded an apology and the removal of the game from shop shelves - otherwise legal action will be considered.

Sony has not returned calls to officials from the Church.

The firm is also branded irresponsible for choosing Manchester - a city plagued by gun violence which has left tens of youngsters dead.
The Bishop of Manchester, the Rt Rev Nigel McCulloch, said; "It is well known that Manchester has a gun crime problem.

"For a global manufacturer to re-create one of our great Cathedrals with photo-realistic quality and then encourage people to have guns battles in the building is beyond belief and highly irresponsible.
"Here in Manchester we do all we can to support communities through our parish clergy, we know the reality of gun crime and the devastating effects it can have on the lives - it is not a trivial matter."

What do you guys think about this? Will it get banned? Post your thoughts.

UPDATE

Heres a news report from the BBC www.youtube.com/

Source: http://www.itv.com/news/

Link to us http://PS3.mmgn.com/News/Resistance-Fall-of-Man-to-be-b

Vote for this article

Resistance: Fall of Man to be banned? Comments

Leave a comment

Kudos: 3,839

geno

what a bunch o soft c##ks its just a game who cares. what was some church dude doing playing it in the first place

10/06/2007

brisbane, qld

Kudos: 8,508

Removed

well if it's going to happen which i doubt it will as it is just a game, better buy the game fast! I do not hope that in a future firmware update that they will not alow you to play the game...?

10/06/2007

Melbourne, Victoria

Kudos: 12

jalvin

What is it with Sony that attracts law suits hahhaha. Church officials always try to ban something because they want to bring religion back in the spot light. Anyway is it because this game is a Sony exclusive that only Sony is getting threaten? What about the game developer?

I agree through this is all full of sh**! I don't even notice most of the locations I just concentrate on the gameplay.

10/06/2007

Sydney

Kudos: 6,945

grey_snake

I think you guys are being a bit niave about this.

I totally understand what they are saying. I mean imagine you were a church goer who frquented this church. Could you imagine going home from church and playing in that same location. You and a mate have a huge gun fight inside the church you were just praying in.

I understand why the church officials are concerned.

To you guys this is just a story on a website - but the the people concerned, i think it means a heck of a lot more to them.

The cathedral should have just been fictional to avoid controversy. Sony's mistake.

10/06/2007

Brisbane

Kudos: 6,945

grey_snake

geno said: what a bunch o soft c##ks its just a game who cares. what was some church dude doing playing it in the first place

*rolls eyes*

10/06/2007

Brisbane

Kudos: 298

del

Yeap Geno I think you hit the nail on the head with your comment. Maybe the church is trying to get some $$ out of Sony.

10/06/2007

Queensland

Kudos: 4,073

calvin260

So what about GOW, they use a church as a level, are they gonna be pissed about that too?

10/06/2007

Idaho, USA

Kudos: 11,762

iddqd

There's churches in tonnes of games, GoW, Command and Conquer Renegade, Half-Life 2, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Timesplitters, Serious Sam, The suffering, Grand Theft Auto, Max Payne 2...

These people are idiots. Churches represent lots of things that are essential in a lot of games, such as, a supposed haven from everything bad or evil, if there's a ruined or burning church in a game, it's not just mindless violence, it's a message that that there's seriously something wrong in this world, and that there's nowhere to run. That is necessary for a lot of game plots!

It's called artistic depth and censorship is killing it. Censorship is killing everything, these people need to take a good hard look at themselves and what the real problem is. 'Cause I'm telling you right now, violence was around for a lot longer than videogames.

10/06/2007

Knee deep in the dead...

Kudos: 28,634

stonecold

This is Bullsh!t There's always something to put the blame on video games.

10/06/2007

Kudos: 6,945

grey_snake

I dont think the concern is that THERE IS A CHURCH IN A GAME..

I think the concern is that its an almost photorealistic replication of an actual church people attend.

Its like school yards exist in games aswell... but if a studio replicated the Colombine School in the US it would be banned as well.

I understand both sides of the agruement and can empathise with the churches position.

Sony should have made a fictional church to avoid these types of things.

I mean did anyone buy this game because they replicated a church in Manchester. Its their own fault. They should have just made a fictional church.

del said: Yeap Geno I think you hit the nail on the head with your comment. Maybe the church is trying to get some $$ out of Sony.

Lol do you think "some church dude" shouldn't be playing videogames aswell hahahaha. Thats a stupid suggestion.

...and it doesnt say anywhere that they want cash - they want and apology and its removal from shelves. That wont happen. THEN they will sue as its their last option and the only way to damage the game.

antman1011 said: well if it's going to happen which i doubt it will as it is just a game, better buy the game fast! I do not hope that in a future firmware update that they will not alow you to play the game...?

If they changed the firmware they would have to do a product recall and refund service. That will never happen. Sony's lawyers would never see that happen.

10/06/2007

Brisbane

Kudos: 4,559

Kinky_K

That is pathetic, if they let pixels get to them that badly, church or no church, it's not real it's just a game, stop putting the blame on video games, if you're the one letting graphics upset you or you're religion than they are the one's that need help, i got the game so it doesn't matter regardless. I'm going to play resistance now and battle aliens in the manchester church with my boyfriend

10/06/2007

N/A

Kudos: 6,945

grey_snake

They arent putting the blame on videogames for anything.

They just dont believe its in entirely in good taste.

Some of you people are really blinded by ur gaming syndrome that you cant even try to understand what this church is trying to say.

These reactions only perpetuate the belief that it is gamers vs the rest of the world.

The bottom line is Sony/Insomniac should have asked permission to use the cathedral in game. Its Sony's/Insomniac's mistake.

It makes sense to me.

10/06/2007

Brisbane

Kudos: 28,634

stonecold

Its just a building in a fictional game.
Why now after a million copies have been sold

10/06/2007

Kudos: 11,602

liam

That is very very over the top. How can the expect to be able to get it canned when Sony are just using some building in the game? Its not like the building is copyrighted or anything.

10/06/2007

Bottom of the Sea

Kudos: 6,945

grey_snake

Its an actual and accurate representation of a place of God in a fictional game.

I dont even go to church and im certainly not a churchie, but i do understand where they are coming from.

Just cause we are gamers doesnt mean we have to defend our games to the hilt. I think this church is so right in this case.

Im sure that avid church goers of this cathedral are quite offended.. and that is fair enough.

...and i guess it took time for the information to get back to the church OR for them to take these actions.

10/06/2007

Brisbane

Kudos: 11,602

liam

hmmm i guess you are right. But i just think they are overreacting a bit but i guess there isnt much else they can do.

10/06/2007

Bottom of the Sea

Kudos: 1,107

bldnut01

He believes in an imaganary man (well i haven,t seen him)and says game players have issues

10/06/2007

Townsville,Queensland

Kudos: 6,945

grey_snake

bldnut01 said: He believes in an imaganary man (well i haven,t seen him)and says game players have issues

EDIT: Apology

What? Did i even say that???

Did i even say game players have issues?

I thought slagging off God became uncool when you finished primary school.

Even if i did believe in an 'imaginary man' - thats not the issue.

The people in that church do im assuming.

10/06/2007

Brisbane

Kudos: 4,559

Kinky_K

Just finished splattering the church walls with alien blood & bullet holes, i hope that didn't offend the over sensitive, oh and grey_snake just because people view their opinion on this that doesn't mean their “blinded by gaming syndrome” like you think they are, and why do you reply to everyone's posts like everyone but you is wrong? There is no right or wrong here, just other users giving their thoughts, stop jumping on everyone who thinks differently to you!

10/06/2007

N/A

Kudos: 6,945

grey_snake

Erm.. im actually just trying to make people aware why the church is up in arms about this.

I dont think you at all understand what im saying.

PERSONALLY i am not offended - all i am doing is asserting the fact that as an adult i understand why they are pissed off.

My opinion doesnt even come into it so i dunno what ur going on about???

10/06/2007

Brisbane

Kudos: 27,256

callan5

I can understand that church goers would b pissed off but the game shouldn't b banned, i mean alot of games have violence in churches, can anyone smell hitman blood money? lol, that chimera chick aint happy with u greysnake man lol, u might wanna buy her some roses now man.

10/06/2007

perth, WA

Kudos: 3,761

dagamster

i understand that the church is angry but I also agree with
everyone here that it is just a GAME!!!

if they are that serious about wanting it off the shelves then instead of taking it of the shelves they should just just tell insomniac to edit that bit out or something because they have taken time to make that game and if they take it away then insomniac have wasted a year of there life!.

no offence to anyone

10/06/2007

Saying hello.

Kudos: 2,162

NoRC

I agree with grey_snake, i can totally understand and respect the church goers...

*BUT*

If they have a 'gun' problem, which obivously started long before this game came out.. how is that our problem? They need to address their gun problem, and spend their time working on that and worrying less about a game... Honeslty how many people are goin to play this game then come down to THAT church? Fark i have no intent on goin to england let alone hunting down some church from 1 very small scene in a game i played.

Perhaps the church is USING this as a way to bring light not on religion but on the problem that church is facing, that being the Gun problem.

Also its got nothing to do with Sony, its to do with the game developers and level designers.

10/06/2007

Gold Coast

Kudos: 6,945

grey_snake

It really affects no one at all apart from the people who frequent that church. It doesnt impact them directly but it does vicariously in the way that they find the idea of their church being abused by game developers insensitive.

OF COURSE its just a game - but thats not the issue. Its like a film depicting execution of 100 000 jews. Its just a movie yes but people are still going to take offence to things that are close to home/heart.

Like if they set a stage in the Vatican there would be an international uproar and Insomniac would be receiving death threats. Its the same thing in this case but on a smaller scale.

Obviously the clegy at this cathedral have a certain respect for the cathedral and are well within their rights to feel how they are feeling and to do what they are doing.

If the product gets recalled and Insomniac losees a year of their lives and have to suffer the cost of recalling the game, then that is no ones fault but theirs. They should have asked for permission.

It was a mistake but one that they and others can learn from in the future...

...or it could just blow over and this will be the last we hear of it.

10/06/2007

Brisbane

Kudos: 21,025

longarms

people people. please realise this is the church they carnt have the game pulled from the shelf. only the biritsh government could do that. just cause one(albit over zealos) religous groups speaks out about somthing dosnt mean squat till the uk gov has its calsification removed and deams it unfit for sale

10/06/2007

Central Coast

Kudos: 6,945

grey_snake

Yeah the only way they will take it off the shelves is if the church files a law suit.

...and its not a clasification issue. The church is just proclaiming it is morally indecent to have cyber shoot outs in their church.

10/06/2007

Brisbane

Kudos: 1,107

bldnut01

to Grey Snake i wasn,t talking about you i was was refering to leaders of the church so you might want to ask or PM me b4 you want to name call to me its just a blaitant grab for money by the church a game is just that "a game"

10/06/2007

Townsville,Queensland

Kudos: 6,945

grey_snake

I apologise.

I dont think it is BLATANT grab for money at all.

They are asking for an apology (which is warranted) ad he removal of the game.

Im sure an amendment to the game would also suffice.

10/06/2007

Brisbane

Kudos: 1,033

valeroso

I believe that using an almost picture perfect replica of an actual Church as a stage for violence and bloodshed is distasteful and sacrilegious on many accounts. From a religious perspective a church is officially considered ‘The House of God’ and is also considered a sanctuary in which people may take refuge in and not have to anguish over the possibility of punishment or inquisition. Additionally, most Christian churches in Europe were constructed above holy grounds, perhaps where a miracle had taken place or someone of a holy nature was buried there. I overstate these three points as my basis as to why it would be deemed sacrilegious to use the Manchester Cathedral as a stage for immense violence, because firstly, since churches are regarded as a sanctuary free from external jurisdiction it will be severely profane to bring in violence as it opposes and desecrates the church’s beliefs. Secondly, as a lot of churches are built over holy grounds it will be credited as gravely blasphemous if something unholy was to occur on such sacred grounds, and lastly it is ‘THE HOUSE OF GOD!’ No arguments necessary…

Although being a gaming fan and hailing from a Spanish Catholic background you could imagine I was heavily conflicted while playing Resistance. However I did take refuge in the fact that I would never commit such atrocities in reality, but I admit that whenever I stumble across a place of worship inside a videogame a sense of discernment, cautiousness and guilt creep over me.

11/06/2007

Bris Vegas

Kudos: 1,033

valeroso

Still, I believe that Sony and Insomniac are at fault here, and I do regard them as being highly irresponsible for first, Insomniac creating a game which features a true to life replica of an actual place of worship, that becomes saturated by blood and bullets, and secondly, Sony for approving such an unethical aspect of Resistance: Fall of Man.

However I also conceive that had Insomniac created a fictional cathedral and not replicate the Manchester Cathedral, this issue would be less controversial, but that’s not the case. Now we just have to wait and see how the two companies will react. Hopefully they'll set things right.

*Sorry for the double post but it was too long for one posting.*

11/06/2007

Bris Vegas

Kudos: 3,690

CHEE5E

Don't get me wrong but RFOM is a good game but Sony/Insomniac should have thought of getting permission from the Cathedral or even just made up a Church building but there you go they haven’t and now have all this to deal with. Time will tell whether it goes to court but I doubt it will be recalled or removed from the shelf. But something will happen just wait you’ll see!

Sony did have this to say “Sony Computer Entertainment Europe is aware of the concerns expressed by the Bishop of Manchester and we naturally take the concerns very seriously” they went on to say “its just a game” basically.

Lessons have been learnt I'd say!

11/06/2007

CHEE5E @ my360, myps3 & mypsp

Kudos: 2,162

NoRC

Ok, so why havnt all the movies featuring gun battles in churches been pulled?

- Dogma (Violent Blood & Guts outside a Church)
- Face Off (Gun Shoot out in a Church)
- Once Upon a Time in Mexico (Shoot out in a Church)

and the list goes on... These movies are still available and i dont rememeber the church kickin it up about them.

11/06/2007

Gold Coast

Kudos: 3,690

CHEE5E

1 its a game we're talking about 2 they probably used some film set or you couldn’t make out what church it is or was or it doesn’t tell you were it is. Tell me if you know were any of them churches from them films are and there names. Apart from Once Upon a Time in Mexico cause you’ll just say Mexico.

This is different as its set in Manchester Cathedral blatantly!

I know loads of games with churches in them like Ninja Gaiden, GTAs, Resident Evil 4 but none are set in real or photo realistic churches.
As far as I know the same goes for films basically.

11/06/2007

CHEE5E @ my360, myps3 & mypsp

Kudos: 28,634

stonecold

OH man these people have taken it to far (HOT TOPIC for discussion) The church is not doing it for money they have plenty of that. They could instead use the money for a good cause then attack Sony. Its not Sony's fault or Insomniac.
Hard to see it getting banned.
With all this your taking away creative game design and choices. If it was Rockstar in the spotlight they would've said F...k it we'd do what we want and thats why their so successful now.

One game comes into mind, Resident Evil 4 has churches and priest.
If you don't like it don't play it.

11/06/2007

Kudos: 3,690

CHEE5E

stonecold says: Its not Sony's fault or Insomniac.

No whos fault is it then? They were the ones (Insomniac) who made the game, went to Manchester Cathedral and took the pictures (no permission (obviously cause they knew they wouldn't get it)).

stonecold says: If it was Rockstar in the spotlight they would've said F..k it we'd do what we want and thats why their so successful now.

Rockstar them selfs have had big problems in the past and if this news is anything to go by then Rockstar are going to be thinking hard about what they do with there games.

11/06/2007

CHEE5E @ my360, myps3 & mypsp

Kudos: 6,945

grey_snake

NoRC said: Ok, so why havnt all the movies featuring gun battles in churches been pulled?

- Dogma (Violent Blood & Guts outside a Church)
- Face Off (Gun Shoot out in a Church)
- Once Upon a Time in Mexico (Shoot out in a Church)

and the list goes on... These movies are still available and i dont rememeber the church kickin it up about them.

If actual churches were used in these films then they would have had to ask the church and received permission. A film crew cant just rock up and film a scene in a church and then leave. Insomniac should have asked permission and thats the bottom line.

That was a pretty hollow comparison NoRC.

11/06/2007

Brisbane

Kudos: 28,634

stonecold

CHEE5E said: stonecold says: Its not Sony's fault or Insomniac.

No whos fault is it then? They were the ones (Insomniac) who made the game, went to Manchester Cathedral and took the pictures (no permission (obviously cause they knew they wouldn't get it)).

stonecold says: If it was Rockstar in the spotlight they would've said F..k it we'd do what we want and thats why their so successful now.

Rockstar them selfs have had big problems in the past and if this news is anything to go by then Rockstar are going to be thinking hard about what they do with there games.

Whos fault is it then people who take offence of the content in video games.
I say The Church of England can go and screw themselves like fat chicks on the street they should be locked up.

11/06/2007

Kudos: 2,162

NoRC

grey_snake said:
NoRC said: Ok, so why havnt all the movies featuring gun battles in churches been pulled?

- Dogma (Violent Blood & Guts outside a Church)
- Face Off (Gun Shoot out in a Church)
- Once Upon a Time in Mexico (Shoot out in a Church)

and the list goes on... These movies are still available and i dont rememeber the church kickin it up about them.

If actual churches were used in these films then they would have had to ask the church and received permission. A film crew cant just rock up and film a scene in a church and then leave. Insomniac should have asked permission and thats the bottom line.

That was a pretty hollow comparison NoRC.

We're talking about a video game, and how its the first to get in shiznat for using a real church with photo realistic depection of said church... Well the closest traditional media to this would be video (Movies).

Movie: Hot Fuzz
Church: St Cuthbert's Church, St Cuthbert St, Wells, Somerset, UK.
Scene: Guy gets crushed by a gargoyle falling from the church.

Thats kinda violent isnt it?

11/06/2007

Gold Coast

Kudos: 6,945

grey_snake

Its not a question whether violence in a curch is ok - thats a subjective opinion of an individual.

In these cases in these films you cite, im assuming they had the go ahead from the churches, depicted in the films, to shoot the scenes in the church.

In the Manchester case they didnt have the approval of the church to use the model in game.

They didnt bother asking. They offended the church. Now they have to deal with the repocussions.

11/06/2007

Brisbane

Kudos: 1,033

valeroso

stonecold said:
Whos fault is it then people who take offence of the content in video games.
.

Okay, to start with, it was an agonizing task deciphering that sentence; I take it you meant to say “Whose fault is it, when people take offence at the content of videogames?” Well to answer that, it’s the developers fault. They had knowingly created something that was controversial and offensive and therefore should face the consequences of their actions.

Suppose you know a person and he/she decided to take a photo of you (without your knowledge or consent) and bastardized and defiled your once innocent picture by placing profanities and slurs on the photo or perhaps he/she may have super imposed your picture in to something immensely degrading and then to add insult to injury, the person chose to make copies of the debauched picture and email to everybody in your workplace. When you finally discover this horrid picture don’t you have the right to feel outraged? Don’t you have the right to feel offended and upset? Of course you do, it’s not your fault you feel that way.

Then whose fault is it?

11/06/2007

Bris Vegas

Kudos: 1,033

valeroso

It’s the creators fault; he/she should have never committed their act knowing full well that someone was bound to get offended; in this case it’s you. Now the person has to face the consequences of their action. However, had the mischievous photographer sought your permission to take your photo and defile it and you approved, then I suppose it would be a completely different story.

The same applies to the issue we are currently discussing. (Church of England vs. R:FOM.)

stonecold said:
I say The Church of England can go and screw themselves like fat chicks on the street they should be locked up.

I’m not even going to try and make sense of this ridiculous comment. I mean seriously?

11/06/2007

Bris Vegas

Kudos: 6,945

grey_snake

That was an awesome analogy Val!!!

11/06/2007

Brisbane

Kudos: 1,033

valeroso

Thanks grey, I thought that if people could identify and relate to the issue at hand on a personal level maybe then, they could learn to empathize with the Church's concerns.

11/06/2007

Bris Vegas

Kudos: 722

roblaw

as i don't hav this game can you go inside the said church

11/06/2007

goldcoast, queensland

Kudos: 1,033

valeroso

Yes, you can go inside Manchester Cathedral in Resistance: Fall of Man.

11/06/2007

Bris Vegas

Kudos: 722

roblaw

could they just make a patch to stop u going inside the church, or is it to big a part of the game to do this

11/06/2007

goldcoast, queensland

Kudos: 27,256

callan5

I'd say they would have to cut out the level roblaw man if they edited the church, because the level starts inside the church.

12/06/2007

perth, WA

Kudos: 28,634

stonecold

valeroso said: It’s the creators fault; he/she should have never committed their act knowing full well that someone was bound to get offended; in this case it’s you. Now the person has to face the consequences of their action. However, had the mischievous photographer sought your permission to take your photo and defile it and you approved, then I suppose it would be a completely different story.

The same applies to the issue we are currently discussing. (Church of England vs. R:FOM.)

stonecold said:
I say The Church of England can go and screw themselves like fat chicks on the street they should be locked up.

I’m not even going to try and make sense of this ridiculous comment. I mean seriously?

ITS A BLOODLY GAME!!!

12/06/2007

Kudos: 1,033

valeroso

stonecold said:
ITS A BLOODLY GAME!!!

Of course it is, I never said it wasn't.

Oh, and by the way, it really is a bloody game.

12/06/2007

Bris Vegas

Kudos: 28,634

stonecold

Ok, I interpreted my comment into a bad joke I didn't mean it.
The scene never happened in real life did it well maybe only in the movies.
Bye this your taking away game scope let the gamer decide
The house of worship doesn't have to be in a church does it?

12/06/2007

Kudos: 13,183

mateo1

lol, i got scared they were really gonna ban this so i told my brother in australia to buy it and he did

13/06/2007

brisbane

Kudos: 27,256

callan5

Thats good thinking mateo, because you seriously never know man, he did the right thing to buy it as it could still could get banned yet. Its better to be safe than sorry mate.

13/06/2007

perth, WA

Kudos: 6,945

grey_snake

I am starting to think "who cares" most people here are citing rationale that makes no sense beyond their own subjecture.

I will have to bow out graciously.

14/06/2007

Brisbane

Kudos: 27,256

callan5

LOL greysnake its ok man, i believe know what you're saying to a certain extent, but because im not a church goer, i really couldnt understand from their view point, thats why it was refreshing to hear valeroso's comments, but i do know where you are coming from.

14/06/2007

perth, WA

Kudos: 339,818

Kenni

if the game DOES get banned, that would be lame for the people who don't have it yet:(

16/06/2007

ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ - The golden tsundere ratio is 8:2

Kudos: 1,003

LegenD

Wow GS, what a great argument... I have never seen such a fiery esponse from you. And thanks to Val.

I do go to Church. And that is my perogative. Anyone that wants to have a healthy discussion about this with me, please... PM me.

But if it was my church, I would be a little horrified. But then again, I'd be assured that this thing wouldn't really happen in reality.

I think the main issue here is that all over the world, kids are getting more violent... from whatever reason that maybe. When photo-realism and gun problems combine...and the lines between the virtual and real are blurred by the ever increasing power of technology, everyone should have a right to be concerned.

Plain and simple.

but wow.... I am going to get a PS3 and this game this weekend....

18/06/2007

Melbourne, Victoria